Click here for a break down of key historical Sri Lankan milestones.
A brief discussion would be in order.
I don't for a moment profess to understand the intricacies involved in this dispute, but I can recognise parallels between the Tamils and the South African coloured and white ethnic minorities.
An important consideration is that the colonial powers, Portugal and Holland, treated the Tamils and the Sinhalese as seperate sects. Typically the British felt it expediate to combine the two entities, and then granted independence on a one-man-one-vote basis, effectively eliminating Tamil aspirations.
If you read the history you will notice that from the moment independence was granted, the new government, consisting of an overwhelming Sinhalese majority, began to legislate systemic oppression with the Ceylon Citizenship Act and the Ceylon Amendment Act. These effectively denied Tamils, of Indian origin, access to citizenship and reduced the legitimate Tamil representation in the legislature.
In 1956 the Sri Lankan government then passed the Official Languages Act, where Sinhalese was designated the only official language. Formerly the Tamils had been favoured under the British since they were largely english speaking, and of a higher class. This piece of legislation was an attempt to correct an imbalance. This law had the effect of restricting education and employment opportunities for Tamils.
Consider that everytime there was economic hardship the Tamils received a disproportionate amount of blame.
All of these, as well as excessive government force, finally resulted in the establishment of the Tamil Tigers, which took up an armed struggle for self-determination. It is probably true that the Tamil Tigers became too militant, but do not let this detract from the original objective.
The Tamil Tigers never received Western endorsement. The contrary in fact, most Western countries, including the UN, classified the Tamil Tigers as a terrorist organisation. So in the wake of 9/11 the Tamils became a legitimate target, and nobody questioned whether their cause was just. Actually nobody really cared, and everbody turned a blind eye to the blatant genocide that followed.
After having read the above, consider South Africa's circumstances. Not all that different. The ANC is demographically superior, they want to aggressively redress perceived past wrongs, the whites are excessively blamed for all of the country's woes, the whites have become marginalised through discriminatory legislation et al. A popular move to seceed could easily take hold, and would just as easily be suppressed, ultimately leading to an armed conflict. Do you think the West will endorse such a move? Never. Would armed conflict be classified as terrorist activity? Absolutely, and would amount to "open season" on the whites.
So we probably need a different approach. Any ideas anybody?
14 Opinion(s):
Vanilla: I ain't read the entire report yet, just noticed the last bit: "So we probably need a different approach."?
1. Are the factors in this report, your justification for your conclusion that 'Secession' is not a good idea?
2. Are you of the opinion that the only means to 'Secession' are by 'Guerrylla Warfare' means?
3. If so, I would agree with you. I'd say NO FUCKING CHANCE. However there are many ways to skin a cat!
4. There are many small steps towards Secession that can be taken totally peacefully... financial Secession (already mentioned a few; ain't heard any feedback from your cigar yet and cognac, yet? ;-)).
5. As I said previously, if people are serious about Secession; there are many factors to consider and plan on. I compared it to Comrades. If you are serious, you consider not only long distance training, you consider psychological training, your equipment, you do training at high altitude, you do sprint training...
In the same way, if you are serious about Secession, there are many many ways to train: Baby Steps. Financial, Agricultural, Educational (Home Schooling, among others), Political, Legal, Informational (Public Relations), etc.... etc.....
Military Secession is -- in my opinion -- (i) THANKS, BUT NO THANKS, LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. (ii) dumber than DUMB, DUMBER AND DUMBEST; ... (iii) for those who prefer using rocket launchers, than their own Brains...
@Andrea. If you read the report you will see that the Tamils resisted peacefully from 1948 - 1975. If peaceful negotiation fails, the only logical next step is military. You can forget about financial secession in an interdependent world. That is dumb. In order for a currency to be widely used as an economic facilitator and story of value, it has to be underwritten either by a commodity (Gold) or by a Government. Why would I put my faith in a JVR (Jan Van Riebeck) when true financial seccession would mean uncoupling the currency from the SAR? The ora is nothing but a proxy SAR. Who would underwrite this currency? Who, outside of the Cape, would trade with you? Because the currency is not recognised, there would be no way to determine relative value, which in effect makes it useless. You may just as well use shiny little beads and all go and live in a tiny little self-sufficient hamlet, where there is no credit and therefore no growth in money supply, and no inflation. No thanks.
Following on my isolationist talk, a definition of "serious" would be in order. If by seriously considering secession, it is meant completely divorcing myself from the world in order to preserve my way of life. Something like a spoilt brat locking themselves in their room. No thanks, then I am not serious and assuredly the bulk of South Africa is not that serious either. So the discussion becomes one of mental masturbation only.
"Any ideas anyone?"
Let me put it this way: it's all about what the Western "money men" want! If it pays them to have one large country with many nations being forced to live together (whether they want to or not), then such a country will exist! If it pays "The West" to have smaller seperate states where those they want in power wouldn't be in power if it were one large country, then smaller states will be allowed, nay encouraged, with "western" influence taking each small state one at a time!
This is how it works.
Vanilla: You appear dead set against Secession?
1. You believe with 100% certainty (not sure what the pillars of your conclusions are based on, in addition to Tamil), that Secession is impossible, and will never occur?
2. YOu think simply the discussion thereof, is an exercise of mental masturbation, and totally useless?
3. If so, thats okay. I welcome you to join me in -- your view -- my mental masturbation with any others interested in the idea of Secession; or if you prefer to simply ignore us.
4. If however you prefer not to join me/us in our Secession Mental Masturbation; thats okay too.
5. There are many ways to conduct peaceful negotiations. There are secessionist peaceful negotiations that have succeeded. If you think they are going to fail, before you even start... then you would not be negotiating in good faith. The 'ANC' may not negotiate in good faith.. but if you want world support, then you would need individuals who support Secession to negotiate in damn good faith... The more sincere and the more their integirty, the greater the chances of a greater number of supporters for the righteousness of the cause.
6. You appear to totally have misunderestood what I meant by baby steps to financial Secession. Thats okay. If you wish to re-evaluate your interpretation of what i said. no problem. if not. okay too.
7. The Ora may -- in your eyes -- jsut be a proxy for the SAR, but in the fucking shitstorm that is going to hit the world economy... when 1.4 QUADRILLION (yes QUADRILLION CREDIT DEFAULT SWAPS UNRAVEL.. into a FUCKING FINANCIAL TSUNAMI...), then those who have a local currency to trade whatever they have to trade in, and to keep their currency local are BETTER OFF, than those who do not...
By using Garden Route Community Exchange System TALENTS, I can trade with any other similar Local Community Exchange System anywhere in the world... Here are a list of a few (random quirky names or variety, I picked out for you) I could trade with...
Community Mutal Credit System (USA), ACCESS (India), Adelaide Local Exchange Trading System (Australia), Alabama Trade Exchange (USA), Ann Arbor LETS (USA), Byteskbanken I Goteborg (Sweden), Canterbury Community Dollars Exchange (New Zealand), Circle of Gifts Exchange (Sweden), Double 2 Time Bank (Ireland), Equamedios Cologno IT LETS (Italy), Global Groups Exchange (International), Jharkhand Community Exchange (India), Hunter LETS (Australia), Hawkes Bay Community Exchange (New Zealand), LETS Ibiza (Spain) Local Exchange Tradign System Winnipeg (Canada), Navsagh & Lamap Exchange (Vanuatu), New Totnes LETS (United Kingdom), Perfect (Spain), Prince Edward County Community Exchange (Canada), Rainbow REgion LETS (Australia), SpyCat Community Exchange (USA), Surfcoast Local Energy Trading System (Australia), Syndicated Create Arts Pursuits Exchange (China), Thames Green Dollar Exchange (New Zealand), Wairarapa Green Dollar Exchange Inc (New Zealand), Wellington Talent Exchange (New Zealand), Windhoek Community Exchange (Namibia). Yippee Skippee Free Exchange of Pioneer Valley (USA)
Vanilla: (2) Granted many of them are still new and recent, and its hardly all using htem. But its a system that is in place, for those who want to use it; and in a time of need, will be available.
For Example: This is an offering:
New Money Workshop in GErmany
Training for community currency designers and participants in all aspects of designing and running systems.
Use for brainstorming or checking out viability of new systems or to run health check on established systems.If I want to go to it, I could pay in my Garden Route Talents. The system has conversion rates, to convert my talents to the Exchange System, of the Local Currency Exchange, wherever the 'Offering' that I want is situated.
All I do is send an order; and when I receive the 'Offering' i wanted, I sign that I received it, and the exchange occurs. I traded with someone in Germany, using my LOCAL CURRENCY!
@Andrea. Given that you like to talk in absolutes, it is surprising that you talk about the assured unraveling of debt defaults. Nothing is assured. As regards alternative currencies, or barter systems, these are as old as time and are nothing new. They are still taxable and do not fall outside of the global system. The impact of a financial collapse will affect all but those who are stockpiling baked beans.
The only way to negotiate secession would either be between willing parties, or where there is leverage available. My suggest would be to attempt the first, which will fail, then to apply leverage. The trick is to strategise and uncover that leverage. Without leverage secession will fail.
I think a Cape currency could be linked to the US dollar or Rand at a fixed exchange rate e.g. 1:1, and then the market will decide what it's really worth.
I do think Cape Secession is a cause worth supporting, although it may be problematic on many levels. It may however be forced upon us, and in that case it is helpful to have some kind of plan.
@Viking. I agree secession is an idea worth exploring. We should be so lucky that it would be thrust upon us, but it is a possibility.
Vanilla:
Given that you like to talk in absolutes, That's funny.... More mud???
On a very, very few things Yes, I think they are a working assumption certainty; however I am totally willing to consider new information I consider credible, to overturn my working assumption. If you consider that to be 'like to talk in absolutes', I guess we got different intepretation of 'absolutes'. I constantly read information from a multitude of sources, from far left to far right to update my 'working assumption 'certainty'; and either hold it as 'temporarily true' or downgrade it to 'less likely' or similar.
RE: Assured unraveling of debt defaults.
See above.
Nothing is assured.
Is this, or is it not, an 'asbolute' statement?
I am aware of how long alternative currencies have been around.
My point was about the particular one I belong to.
I notice You did not address any of my original points.
Go back and read what you said, or did you forget?
They are still taxable and do not fall outside of the global system.
Your point?
Yesterday you thought anyone using them as a minor psychological form of secession from the Debt Slavery Economy, was sitting on an island in the Pacific, without the ability to trade with another?
Today, you think they are a form of the global economy and are taxed?
Some may be directly taxed, I'd have to research, but I ain't aware of the LETS system being taxed at all.
The impact of a financial collapse will affect all, some far greater than others.
As a sailor, I prefer when I see whta I interpret as storm clouds on the horizon, as 'nasty weather' approaching to batten down the hatches... and stick up the storm jib...
Vanilla: I read the Tamil Scribd Presentation. I think there are interesting points.
I think the factors you raised for the similarity of the Tamil/Ceylon issues to Cape/Azania; are worthy of consideration.
I get that -- it appears -- you think they are reasons that Secession definiately is not an option for the Cape.
I think that -- they are lessons to learn -- on how to avoid attmepting to Secede.
My position is 'tis a good idea, I am interested in exploring' cause I ain't heard anyone yet come up with a better idea, than sit around and bitch and whine about the ANC and K4'S in general.
If someone comes up with a better idea, or other alternative ideas to Secession, I am ALL EARS!
Vanilla: Agreed on Secession via Negotiation and Leverage.
It appears you think that it is a fait accompli (an absolute) that it is worthless to attmept the first, cause it will definitely fail.
Personally, I don't consider that good faith negotiation; if you go into a negotiation, thinking before you even begin that it will fail, with the reason to blame the other party; rather than your own lack of good faith.
Perhaps I misinterpreted you, it is for this reason that I think it absolutely imperative, that anyone negotiating Secession, must be of the utmost highest quality of integrity and transparency and sincereity. If they are not, and instead only 'negotiating' to put up a fake bullshit story front, then I imagine those wnating Secession will be digging their own holes..
The trick is to strategise and uncover that leverage. Without leverage secession will fail.
Agreed.. and often the other parties leverage exists in our own minds.
I agree secession is an idea worth exploring.
Interesting. Glad to hear it. I agree.
Vanilla:
Westhawk's post: Did Sri Lanka debunk counterinsurgency theory?.
Think you may find interesting in relation to our conversation.
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